An old chestnut I guess.

My Athlon 3200 just will not idle below 47c and loads up to 53c, no matter
what I do to my cooling. It now has a 120mm exhaust behind it, another
120 pulling in at the case front,
there's even an 80mm intake on the case side-panel and a dual-fan PSU.
System temp, even in warm weather, ranges from "just" 28 to 33c. I belive
my Gigabyte board reads die temp, so that's something.

On the one time my CPU reached 56c (doing BOINC) the system went down. On
this basis, I'd be happy with a 42-49 range, even 50, but I don't like
52/53 or so, there's not enough headroom there for my tastes before the
point I at hwich I know it can wobble over.

I should add I run at only stock bus speeds.

Currently I'm running with the stock cooler again as I got no improvements
(actually a 2-3 degree worsening) when I tried a couple of large coolers
with 80mm fans, e.g. TT Volcano, Akasa (not sure which). I use some
Thermaltake grease I grabbed in PC World, which I gather is one of the
Arctic Silvers. The Thermaltake cooler even has a 5,000 RPM fan, which
simply deafens me but makes no odds. I remounted my stock cooler - if
it's going to be hot either way I may as well have it melt in peace.

I might be cocking up the paste application I suppose. And I don't lap my
heatsinks or anything like that. I have cleaned with isopropyl where
needed. And obviously, the original stuck on layer is all gone, in case
anyone was going to ask....

Is it possible that, without special preparations, an Athlon of this type
is never going to cool below these levels? My opinion is that if I can't
get below 47c with any extra cooling applied, then there must be a
bottleneck in the cooling, a limit in the interface with the heatsink,
whatever, which makes my extra fans irrelevant to the processor. It just
can't cool below this point, no matter what??

Air flow seems good. Putting my hand in, I can feel a lot of movement and
no warm spots. The side fan seems to have removed a hot-spot that I had
noticed near my Radeon. It is only a
"normal" case, quite boring, not a cooling paradise, but chosen to at
least have decent flow for 120mm fans (large holes) etc. It's tall, with
so much clearance around everything, including the CPU. I even use some
lovely round IDE/floppy cables and I've tried to pull all of them out of
the flow... I'm a good boy really!

Some might say that a peak just over 50c is not alarming for someone not
going to extra lengths with the heatsink application. Some might say I'm
screwing up the grease, too much, too little. I've tried applying it a
dozen times, to the point that I am now holding off experiments for fear
of damaging the socket or die with my heavy hands.

Just want to sound out opinions.

Should I just forget looking at the system mmonitor (Easytune) and get on
with running the PC? It always possible that if it crashes after 2 hours
gaming that something else failed, after all...

What say you?

Best, Ian.

3200 on Gigabyte 7VT-600RZ
512mb PC400


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I keep reading about people who have their CPUs running under 40C under
load, and if you take their word, with air cooling.

I have no fucking clue how they do it.

I think I have an "adequate" set of fans in my case, and case temp hovers
around 40C. My 2500+, overclocked to 3200+ and undervolted to 1.5V, runs
about 46-48C idle depending on room temp. Under load it gets at high as 55C.

Under stock voltage it can even go over 60C.

I did everything I could to bring it down, I applied different amound of AS
in various ways, but the temp never varied by more than a couple of degrees.
Seems I'm even more "incompetent" than you, but I'll be damned if I didn't
do my best.

Finally I said, "Screw it, the thing's rated for 85C, what am I trying to
accomplish anyway?" and left it at that.

I even tried overvolting it to 1.85V, and actually managed to hit 70C at
full load once (by that time the room got so hot I was sweating just being
there). It never crashed, and not a single error in Prime95.

That's why I'm a bit suspicious of it crashing at a mere 56C. I would look
elsewhere for the culprit.

"Ian" <iano (AT) nospam (DOT) net> wrote

An old chestnut I guess.

My Athlon 3200 just will not idle below 47c and loads up to 53c, no matter
what I do to my cooling. It now has a 120mm exhaust behind it, another
120 pulling in at the case front,
there's even an 80mm intake on the case side-panel and a dual-fan PSU.
System temp, even in warm weather, ranges from "just" 28 to 33c. I belive
my Gigabyte board reads die temp, so that's something.

On the one time my CPU reached 56c (doing BOINC) the system went down. On
this basis, I'd be happy with a 42-49 range, even 50, but I don't like
52/53 or so, there's not enough headroom there for my tastes before the
point I at hwich I know it can wobble over.

On Wed, 10 May 2006 00:37:25 +0100, Ian wrote:

shouldn't be more than about 5C above room temp. The cpu temp shouldn't be
more than 25C above case temp under load. A good cooler will keep that
within 15C. The stock AMD K7 cooler is far from what I'd call good. A good
cooler in the cheap range would be a TR2-M3. Cost about $8. Better than
that would be a Thermalright ALX-800. The ALX-800 cost about $25 and is
close to the best you can buy at any price if you can still find one. But
I'd use the TR2-M3 on any K7 cpu even overclocked to 2400MHz or above. In
fact, I have. Thermal compound is important only in the fact that you
need some kind. I'm currently using 30 year old wheel bearing grease, and
have been since Sept. 2005. Did it just to prove a point. Now that's all I
use.

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On Wed, 10 May 2006 07:30:04 +0100, Wes Newell
<w.newell (AT) TAKEOUTverizon (DOT) net> wrote:

If I'm guilty of anything with the grease, it might be too little, too
thin (hard to do I know!). So, I think my case temp is ok relative to the
room and the CPU is an average 18c hotter than this under load. So it
isn't bad? I'm quite good at most things but never really cracked the
temps. I get thoughtful when I read of folks with 32c CPU temps, but I
only really care because I don't think it's stable over 56. I will look
at the coolers you mention Wesley (I'm in the UK). Someone naming favoured
coolers from experience is what I was after.

My CPU does quickly drop to the idle temp, but this seems to be it's floor
at present, regardless of extra air and voodoo chanting.

Cheers.


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On Wed, 10 May 2006 05:42:12 +0100, Mercury <nobody (AT) nospam (DOT) null> wrote:

;-))


I'm not an Overclocker but I am impressed that you can both overclock and
undervolt. I'm reaching the conclusion that it doesn't really matter as
long as it runs. If it crashes when I've been caning it for hours, I
don't really know if it is my Radeo, at the end of the day. I have no
measurements of the die temp of the GPU, after all. And the current HSF on
that was also fitted by me! ;-)

I've tried it as a pea-sized blob being squashed down when the CPU is
fitted, as a thin layer spread by me with a plastic edge, applied to the
HSF instead, sworn at, prayed over, even applied with my finger
(fingerprint/grease is a no-no!!) and I get bugger all change. It might as
well be toothpaste - some say that's so, actualy, if only toothpaste
didn't dry! I think it may prove that Arctic Silver and similar are over
hyped, that the properties of filling gaps and not insulating too much may
apply to simpler products. I was just reading Wes's comments (and I've
heard him say this before) about wheel bearing grease.

I'm being unfair. If you had a HSF that could really shift so much heat
that the CPU could go down to 15c over case temp then I suppose you might
see a change from better grease. Or not.

It is rated to die forever (the usual kind of dying I suppose) at 85c.

Yeah? I read an Australian review of the 3200+ in which the author stated
that it made his case hot to the touch. What?! I have never experienced
anything like that. I am sitting next to some pretty cold feeling metal,
with cool breezes coming out of the vent holes. I know I'm unhappy at 50
or so degrees, but even so, WTF would one be doing to make this into a
heater?!


It never crashed, and not a single error in Prime95.

I must try Prime 95 actually.

Yeah - as I said above it might even be the Radeon. Mine can't provide a
temp for monitoring. Gotta say, not so long ago, many motherboards were
also without telemetry and you just stuck the HSF on and let it run!
Sometimes I think I worry too much with this information just because it
is there.

Cheers.


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"Ian" <iano (AT) nospam (DOT) net> wrote

On Wed, 10 May 2006 05:42:12 +0100, Mercury <nobody (AT) nospam (DOT) null> wrote:

That makes two of us. :-) I guess I just got lucky and got a gem of a
processor (probably wasted on me, though). It definitely keeps the room
cooler.

My BIOS gives the option of shutting down the computer when the CPU exceeds
a certain temperature. I have it set at the lowest possible temp, that being
75C. I would expect it to freeze or display some kind of symptoms before
actually crapping out on me.

All the components probably put out between 200-300W (don't quote me, it's
just a guess). Imagine three 100W light bulbs in a metal case. I think it's
understandable for it to get a bit toasty. Probably air circulation in the
room has a big effect, too.

On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:13:28 +0100, Mercury <nobody (AT) nospam (DOT) null> wrote:

Well like you said, if it runs it runs. I think you said that!

Yeah, I guess. I've got two HDDs and all the rest, but there just isn't
radiant heat. I once had a cheapo 400w PSU that really pushed hot air out
the back, which clearly wasn't exhaust heat it was it's OWN heat. My
current decent quality 450 with two fans puts out only luke warm air.
Inside the case feels cool and breezy if I slide my hand in afetr removing
the top, for example. I guess I'm just lucky as this isn't one of those
clever cooling cases or anything. Wa-hey!!! ;-))

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I have peletier chips running with Opertron 280 dual cpu. native no
peliteirs I get 48*C with Pel's on I get 21-23*C make sure you gota a large
power sipply. I'm using a thermaltake 850 of which 175W is for my cooloing
chips. Pure cooling with the adding of 2 120mm fans (250cfm each) I'm a bit
loud. That's ok. But what the system can do, OUCH!! Also I have cold floor
uptake vents on the floor in my office I have a snorkel vent that's charged
by a 110V 6" fan my exaust Tenp is 29.5*C for the entire box. Wile room temp
is 78*F



"Ian" <iano (AT) nospam (DOT) net> wrote

An old chestnut I guess.

My Athlon 3200 just will not idle below 47c and loads up to 53c, no matter
what I do to my cooling. It now has a 120mm exhaust behind it, another
120 pulling in at the case front,
there's even an 80mm intake on the case side-panel and a dual-fan PSU.
System temp, even in warm weather, ranges from "just" 28 to 33c. I belive
my Gigabyte board reads die temp, so that's something.

On the one time my CPU reached 56c (doing BOINC) the system went down. On
this basis, I'd be happy with a 42-49 range, even 50, but I don't like
52/53 or so, there's not enough headroom there for my tastes before the
point I at hwich I know it can wobble over.

I should add I run at only stock bus speeds.

Currently I'm running with the stock cooler again as I got no improvements
(actually a 2-3 degree worsening) when I tried a couple of large coolers
with 80mm fans, e.g. TT Volcano, Akasa (not sure which). I use some
Thermaltake grease I grabbed in PC World, which I gather is one of the
Arctic Silvers. The Thermaltake cooler even has a 5,000 RPM fan, which
simply deafens me but makes no odds. I remounted my stock cooler - if
it's going to be hot either way I may as well have it melt in peace.

I might be cocking up the paste application I suppose. And I don't lap my
heatsinks or anything like that. I have cleaned with isopropyl where
needed. And obviously, the original stuck on layer is all gone, in case
anyone was going to ask....

Is it possible that, without special preparations, an Athlon of this type
is never going to cool below these levels? My opinion is that if I can't
get below 47c with any extra cooling applied, then there must be a
bottleneck in the cooling, a limit in the interface with the heatsink,
whatever, which makes my extra fans irrelevant to the processor. It just
can't cool below this point, no matter what??

Air flow seems good. Putting my hand in, I can feel a lot of movement and
no warm spots. The side fan seems to have removed a hot-spot that I had
noticed near my Radeon. It is only a
"normal" case, quite boring, not a cooling paradise, but chosen to at
least have decent flow for 120mm fans (large holes) etc. It's tall, with
so much clearance around everything, including the CPU. I even use some
lovely round IDE/floppy cables and I've tried to pull all of them out of
the flow... I'm a good boy really!

Some might say that a peak just over 50c is not alarming for someone not
going to extra lengths with the heatsink application. Some might say I'm
screwing up the grease, too much, too little. I've tried applying it a
dozen times, to the point that I am now holding off experiments for fear
of damaging the socket or die with my heavy hands.

Just want to sound out opinions.

Should I just forget looking at the system mmonitor (Easytune) and get on
with running the PC? It always possible that if it crashes after 2 hours
gaming that something else failed, after all...

What say you?

Best, Ian.

3200 on Gigabyte 7VT-600RZ
512mb PC400


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Demnos wrote:

I haven't returned to this thread for a while since, despite changing to
a more approved cooler, I have hit a minimum temp, which I can't get
below no matter what air I move and how.

System is seemingly stable in the highest ambient temps it has ever
encountered here in the UK, so I have relaxed my obsession and I just
let it run. Lately I have been thrashing it with video editing and it
has not fallen over. If I play games for extremely prolonged periods it
might, once in a while, crap out on me, however there is a growing
suspicion this is the bloody driver for my sound card! Long story that.

Anyway, your rig and your temps are very impressive. I have only a 450w
supply, which was a good branded model with good fans, but not in the
same class! I know there is more I could do, but as I said, regarding
air cooling, I now feel that three more fans (for which there is no
room) would make no difference, it needs something else and I'm not
going there at this time. Probably mostly it needs a better case. I
have the illusion of size and ventilation, but in reality I am not so sure.

What this case does have is a rather restrictive pattern of holes for
the poor fans to strain through. One day I might remove everything and
get out a Dremel to widen these, or cut the apertures right out and put
guards over instead. I fancy that! This would really change the
airflow. Gotat be bothered to strip the system out of the case, but I'm
getting the urge, LOL.

Thanks 4 input. Enjoy your cool system!

"Demnos" <sharkeyfamily1 (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote

You don't mention which operating system you use. If it's Windows XP. Make
sure "Enable processor HLT" or similar is enabled in your BIOS. This will
cool the processor during idle times and anything other than full load. If
your BIOS doesn't have this feature there's a neat little program called
CPUIdle. That enables the same featuure in software. Simply search for it in
any search engine. As for Thermaltake grease being the same as Artic Silver.
That is definitely wrong. While it does the same job, it doesn't do it
anywhere near as well. If you can use Artic Silver 5. And when applying any
thermal compound use the thinnest layer possible. Too much can actually act
as an insulator and keep the heatsink from working.