On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:37:23 GMT, Chris
<christo9 (AT) notalotofunwanted (DOT) aol.com> wrote:

I think you need to do a little more investigation here: read the BadCaps
Web site in some detail; figure out the mfr of the bad ones and the mfr of
the ones you intend to use as replacements. There's no point in replacing
just three if the others are also by the same mfr - read the whole story on
this at http://www.niccomp.com/taiwanlowesr.htm and you'll see that it's a
problem with the aqueous electrolyte which lacks an inhibitor for gassing
of the electrolyte. IOW if three are bad they're all bad and failure is
only a matter of time. Have you checked the bases of the other,
non-bulging, caps for leakage.

As for soldering, I've also replaced a BIOS chip on a mbrd, with a socket
in fact, but the area of the mbrd where the chip was placed meant that
there was a low chance of err, peripheral damage to neighboring components
and traces. I think the caps are worth a try but I'm not sure I'd get the
job done right myself. Do you already have the right tools?... just the
right solder iron power and type which I'm not sure of - somebody? I think
in your situation I'd get the wick *and* a good sucker tool (Paladin) and
start with the wick with maybe the sucker for clean-up.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

George Macdonald wrote:
Well doesn't that defeat the purpose of DIY, it sounds like the tools
to do the job will cost more than the cost of a new board. I can
understand the purpose of learning how to do it, but it almost sounds
like the learning curve is too much if the board is used for production
use, or a use with some degree of realibility.

I guess the next question would be is what is the going rate to send it
to a dedicated place that does this kind of work. Also what would the
manufacture charge if they did the recapping of the board? I bet if you
talked to the right folks, you might get a really good deal, heck you
might even get a free board if your a loyal customer. If it was me I
would send the board with the new caps to anyone on this group who said
they could do it, just to see if they could repair it. Yeah I know it's
probably cheaper to just go get a new board, then to pay the freight,
not to mention the fact that you know it's not dodgy. Even if you fixed
the caps, what happens if some of the traces were damaged by the
spillage of the broken caps.

This kinda of goes with the the reasoning that never offer to reinstall
an OS on a friends computer. It's just not worth the headache, as
people will complain, and wine that widget xyz seems to be broken or
that you did not save the most recent bookmark to that superdupper
review. But heck if I had a some busted caps, I would do it just for
the humor value of it.

Rthoreau

On 23 Nov 2006 06:58:10 -0800, "Rthoreau" <rthoreau (AT) iwon (DOT) com> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Take it to a workshop that solders and desolders components for a
living, eg a TV/VCR/audio repair shop.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On 23 Nov 2006 06:58:10 -0800, "Rthoreau" <rthoreau (AT) iwon (DOT) com> wrote:

Depends how you look at it. I have moderate soldring skills and I *would*
tackle this... and may have to if I read the umm, incipient bulges right.
You don't need a (de-)soldering station and even if you did they're not
that expensive; if you already have say a 40W iron it would probably do the
job; if you need to buy a 60W, which might be necessary for some mbrds with
localized high heat capacitance around the caps, even a Weller 60W is
nickels & dimes... same for a Paladin vacuum pump. If you're into DIY
system building those are tools which you probably should have as part of
your "kit" anyway.

You accumulate tools as you need over the years - and sometimes when you
don't "need" it's often somebody's great idea for a present, example:
Dremel tool. Mine is practically worn out now but it's not something I
would have thought indispensable enough to go to my holster for the plastic
at the time.:-) Among the assortment of tools I have lying around, I also
have a pop-rivet kit which I've used maybe 3 times in 20 years or so, but
when I needed it nothing else would do. Umm, every handyman should have a
soldering iron of some sort - no?:-)

Easy to look up -- www.badcaps.net & www.motherboardrepair.com -- and it
seems like the price is about $50. including return shipping. If you're
not into DIY, the Dell & Gateway "bad cap experience" was painful for the
early err, adopters/victims but much easier for the later ones, though I
gather there were some who were left out in the cold by even Dell after it
'fessed up - http://www.poweredgeforums.com/showthread.php?t=2236.

Glad to see you appreciate the dilemma of helping friends... voice of
experience it appears.:-) IME it's works this way: you're not supposed to
denigrate the "friend" by doing the job right; yer supposed to fix it after
it's broken!

Reminds me of a "friend" who bought a scanner back in the Win98 days: he
talked to me for installation advice on the phone - I told him you *must*
install the software first; his genius f**kin' SIL comes along and says "Oh
it's plug 'n' play, nah you just plug it in and it gets recognized...
*then* you install the software". Obviously this guy "knew" all the latest
"stuff"... what a mess!

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks (AT) tellurian (DOT) com> wrote:
In fact I found a de-soldering station of limited usefulness...

Yes, definitely.

True. Otherwise the friend does not have a chance to learn...

Half-knowledge is worse than no knowledge....

Arno

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 07:00:05 +1100, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar (AT) iinternode (DOT) on.net> wrote:

Are you sure about that Franc? I thought all that most of those guys do
now is unplug and re-plug modules? Who in their right mind is going to pay
to repair a VCR?

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 02:28:15 -0500, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks (AT) tellurian (DOT) com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

I once worked in such a place. These shops employ *real* technicians,
not just trained (or untrained) monkeys who can turn a Phillips head
screwdriver.

No, they do *real* component level repair. Just take the back off your
CRT TV and tell me how many "modules" you can see. You'll probably
only find one PCB.

The newer plasma and LCD TVs are a different story, though.

Today, probably nobody, unless they have an investment in tapes, and
have a quality machine. I certainly wouldn't pay someone to repair any
of the current crop of VCRs.

Anyway, a standard VCR service involves a video belt/tyre kit, tension
band, brake pads, pinch roller, mode switch, cleaning of video head
and tape path, gear and rail lube. For the sorts of components that
break in a typical VCR, see section 4 of this catalogue:

http://www.wagner.net.au/Sections/

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:25:21 +1100, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar (AT) iinternode (DOT) on.net> wrote:

I haven't looked in a while. In a VCR I opened up a few years ago, the
tuner, FM modulator, control panel and drum drive circuit were modules
IIRC.

Just my situation. I had the misfortune, a few years ago, to get a Sony
SLV-998HF -- not the highest "end" but it has flying head editing and was
fairly expensive -- when my really old Hitachi "high-end" came back from a
visit to the "shop" with a new problem. The Sony's FM modulator went bad
in the first few months, which didn't bother me too much since I didn't use
it. Now the tuner has gone bad and I'm more tempted to take my rage out on
it than fix it.

Let me ask you: is it possible that a (Motorola) STB might blow the tuner
on a VCR/TV? The Sony VCR's tuner went gaga a few weeks after we got a new
cable co. STB when they switched over to digital - I'm kinda suspicious on
this. Not that it matters much anyway since the STB's FM modulator doesn't
do stereo anyway, so a direct video/audio hook-up would be the way to go.

IIRC my Hitachi, which was a great VCR and lasted for years, came back with
the ground strap for the spindle of the drum drive missing - think that
was it anyway.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:37:23 GMT, Chris
<christo9 (AT) notalotofunwanted (DOT) aol.com> wrote:

So much pain in you-know-where to salvage an obsolete board that
wasn't a good value even when new (ecs aka pcchips - bad caps are the
proof). These days, a board like this (not the same model, but the
same socket) - new, warranty and all, can be had from Newegg for under
$47 shipped, from ebay even cheaper but no warranty. OTOH, you have
to pay for capacitors, soldering iron and solder(unless you already
have it), wick or vacuum de-solderer, spend at least an hour of your
time - probably even more. The chances for success are not more than
50% - I'm generous with the number. Isn't it easier to just replace
the board or upgrade the whole thing to A64?

NNN

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc nobody (AT) nowhere (DOT) net <mygarbage2000 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
I would say it is not about cost-efficiency. It is about having the
power to repair a thing and demonstrating it.

Arno