The answer to this may be obvious but I can't see it!!

Conventional wisdom states that the Epson Ink Monitor works by counting
the number of times it spits ink at the paper and calculates the amount
of ink left in the cartridge. I have never seen this challenged on this
NG or elsewhere.

Why, therefore, does the cartridge have a chip? Counting the ink drops
would be a function of the print heads and nothing to do the cartridge.

What does the chip actually do? The chip on a R265 cartridge has 9
contacts so it must be doing something. Is it possible that ink spot
counting is what used to happen with non-chipped cartridge but the
present generation of chipped cartridges work in a different way, i.e.
direct measurement of the amount of ink actually in each cartridge?

This would, of course, inform my recent question about Inksaver.

As an aside, I recently passed my C84 on to a family member and bought
an Epson R265. Excellent printing of text though photographs might be
too good - it show up every little imperfection but I'm working on that!
However, it gets through ink at a phenomenal rate! You can almost see
the level of (OEM) ink in the cartridge dropping as you print! When they
empty I will use compatible chipped cartridges - refilling is not an
option as the SSCS utility does not recognise the R265 and anyway its
website says the R series chips cannot be reset - bloody Epson!
--
Denis Scadeng
denis (AT) burdon (DOT) demon.co.uk
http://www.burdon.demon.co.uk/

Denis Scadeng wrote:
was (less the ink you just wasted in priming), so unless the firmware
records a unique ID from the chip, then ink quantity data must be
recorded to the chip. (Ink use measurement is calculated as you say above)
The chip identifies the cartridge to the printer, type, colour, location
zone, date, etc.

Hi!

It's a memory device. When the ink is supposed to be "out" this is written
to the memory on the cartridge. Since the printer uses the chip to determine
not only if the cartridge is present but also if it actually still has ink
in it, this can be used to hamper refilling efforts. Taking the chip out or
blocking off the contacts would be the "obvious" fix to the ink level report
problem, so if the printer won't see the cartridge unless it can communicate
with the chip...that is the "gotcha".

Most of them are small inexpensive EEPROM or batteryless NVRAM chips. They
contain serial number data, the 'ink level' information and maybe some other
information.

William

"William R. Walsh" <newsgroups1 (AT) idontwantjunqueemail (DOT) walshcomptech.com>
wrote in message news:Av_Hh.5192$PF.4239 (AT) attbi_s21 (DOT) ..






The information that the R series chips not being able to be reset is
false, as I and many other folks have been doing it for years now with a
simple $20 chip resetter. I've been resetting the chips on our R1800 for
over a year.

The site below sells spongeless cartridges which will allow even a kid the
opportunity to easily refill spongeless cartridges with decent quality ink,
from the same outfit at about $2.00 (maximum) per fill, if purchasing 4 ox
bottles of ink. It takes me perhaps two minutes to refill a cartridge and
reset the chip.

http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm

IF the R265 uses the same ink cartridges as the R260 (or the C84-not the
ink, but the same physical size cartridge) then I think you're in business.
I've got a dozen C84 printers at school running with them and have even
taught two teachers to start filling their own and resetting the chips.
What I am surprised about is that you mentioned you had a C84 still
running. The first six C84's that I put into service a couple of years ago
clogged themselves within that time using the Dura-brite poison made by
Epson. The ink is formulated to dry too quickly and thus cause head clogs
that are incredibly difficult to undo. Since going to third party dye base
ink ( January '96) I've had no trouble with the C84's that I have had
running with the ink.

I realize from your address that you aren't in the U.S., but if you do a
search you should easily be able to locate a national source in your
locality that handles these cartridges, can supply you with a chip resetter
and get a recommendation from this NG, or maybe you have another source you
can check as to what firm can sell you reliable ink.


--
Jan Alter
bearpuf (AT) verizon (DOT) net
or
jalter (AT) phila (DOT) k12.pa.us

I always enjoy a question from a thinking person (as opposed to one who
isn't, which probably means they are dead ;-))

The actual counting of the ink being used, either for printing, or for
waste from purging or cleaning is indeed calculated by the printer
itself and it is stored there during a printing session.

The purpose of the chip is to record the approximate level of ink left
in the cartridge after each session. By recording it to this
non-volatile memory, the cartridge can be removed, and another inserted,
or it can be transferred to another printer. This way, when the printer
is turned on, it reads the level already recorded on chip, and starts
subtracting from that level.

Of course, the real reason for the chip is so that after the cartridge
reads empty, even if it is refilled, it still will not work, because it
will still read empty, unless it is frozen or reset via software or a
chip resetter.

The older chipped ink cartridge printer used to only record the ink from
the latest session when it was shut down, which made some people leave
the printer on all the time. Now, I belbelievee printers will get a
reading to the chip randomly during sessions.

Art



Denis Scadeng wrote:

Denis Scadeng <denis (AT) burdon (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in news:QekJ
$TBJwD8FFw8w (AT) burdon (DOT) demon.co.uk:


Well, I certainly have to agree with others in this thread that the chips
hold ink level information. I've used a hand held resetter and it
certainly does reset the chip to report that it is full.

In this thread, Mr.Scadeng also mentions a "unique ID" in some chips. I
know these "Unique ID" strings exists in, at least, some factory branded
"real" Epson chips.

As to whether this "unique ID" is in 3rd party chips? I'm not sure. I
know that I thought that to be the case but some fumbling around that I've
done recently with my SP900 and my SP1280 make me wonder if that's a
necessary component for proper functioning.

The 3rd party cartridges that I have don't seem to give a "unique ID"
number to the appropriate service software. Even so, some of those
cartridges work and some cause strange printer behaviors. Same 3rd party
company making the cartridges. None of the cartridges report a "unique
ID" and yet some from one "lot" work and some from another "lot" cause
problems.

I do believe, however, that there is some sort of binary data in the chips
that give a unique identity to the main board chips of the printer. I am
guessing that it doesn't have to be the exact "hex" format that the printer
expects in all respects but I'm guessing that there are certain
"registers" that are necessary.

I'm also guessing that the cartridge chip doesn't have to report an
alphanumeric string to the service software for the technician to read. I
wonder if some of that data is just for technician's use in identifying an
installed cartridge. After all, if you work on Epson's all the time, you
probably have an assortment of cartridges and you need to know if a
particular one is giving you false readings so you can eliminate it. But,
I don't think that the same "hex" data giving the service technician an
identifier has to be the same "hex" data that is communicating identifying
information to the printer main board chips.

In addition, Epson original chips report the ink color of the cartridge to
the software driver in a form that presents a human readable alpha string
giving the color of the ink that is in the cartridge, along with the
production date and other information. On the other hand, the 3rd party
cartridges that I use do not report that data in a form that is translated
as human readable text string in the driver GUI. However, I believe that
there may be separate registers for the "human readable" data that is
basically only marketing "fluff" for those of us looking at the driver GUI
and I think that some of the "human readable" data is helpful to service
technicians. I'm supposing that the "real" necessary data is held in other
registers for the main board chips of the printer.

I guess that what I'm trying to say is that those chips hold lots more than
just ink levels. I just don't know what it is. I do, however, know that
there are some very important data units in those chips that are required
by the printer so that it can recognize a cartridge as being there before
it was last powered down. I've experienced these things with two different
lot numbers of 3rd party chipse recently.

I wish I didn't have so many things going on at one time in my life right
now. I'd like to experiment a little. Maybe with a little luck, I can
find the time to build that parallel chip interface spec'd at the SSC site
to see some of what's in those chips. It won't do me much good but it will
be fun to look around.

I guess that basically I'm a Epson-a-holic and I just can't keep my hands
off of them. When those babies finally work right and spit out a print on
glossy paper, it's a beauty to behold.

I think that owning an Epson is sometimes like owning a Ford Edsel or a
Triumph Spitfire. They need more work than ever dreamed possible yet the
addiction compels one to unknowningly skip meals in order to tend to their
needs.

//rus\\

Meander Holefield <meander (AT) the (DOT) net> wrote:

<snip>

A "Triumph Spitfire", gee I nearly bought one about....mumble...years ago.
I sometimes still wish I had and yet the car I bought instead served me very
well, but nothing like as sexy!
Tony

"Tony" <TonytheTigurrrrr (AT) aim (DOT) com> wrote


I've always considered the Epson C-80 akin to a '65 Triumph Bonneville
motorcycle.
The bike would soom up to 120 mph and then nonchalantly drop one of its
mufflers on the ground because of vibration.
The printer will be going great, spitting out one beautiful print after
another and then stall because the chip indicates that a color is empty when
it's still got 20% of its load left.

--
Jan Alter
bearpuf (AT) verizon (DOT) net
or
jalter (AT) phila (DOT) k12.pa.us

"Jan Alter" <bearpuf (AT) verizon (DOT) net> wrote:
Jan
Have you ever tried a compatible '65 Triumph Bonneville?
I understand they are just as fast, 1/10th of the price to buy and their
mufflers will remain in place for 250 years at least. A bit like a quality
aftermarket compatible ink from a professional brand!!!!
Tony

Tony <TonytheTigurrrrr (AT) aim (DOT) com> wrote in newsart1of1.1.#mrvCM7E
$ZuU2w (AT) ue (DOT) ph:

lol ... or buy some good leaded 105 octane gas from China for 1/10th the
price and avoid all this ridiculous dissolved butane and alcohol crap in
U.S./U.K reformulated gas. Vroooom! It's a shame we put mufflers on bikes
like that anyway. Kinda like putting adhesive tape over some of the Epson
print head nozzles.
//rus\\